The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Christophe Louis To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource Bertrand Antoine & Fils By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Your help is appreciated. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Please - no questions about your old guns. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Bodson N. Berleur Guillaume The "D.D. . Ancion Marx will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. Broqua & Scholberg Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Wish I could be more helpful! Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Tel: 01707 709372; Quite old. determination. Any idea how to date it? weapon. Thank y'all again! Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. It is was built using a very thick Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. Can be without star and ring. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. Bovy Thodore Joseph Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Comblain H. J. Chaineux J. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. cases. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Can anybody shed some light here? I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. firearms books bibliary. Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Many thanxPS:. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military Proof arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. It is located just above the circle with ELG. How do I price this piece? Can you send me some, Ed? % Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Bauduin Charles Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. 1860-1870. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. Comblain Hubert Joseph ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Thanks Hause. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Bettonville - Fontaine I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. this location now so you can return often. and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Thomas Jefferson. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. to identify the manufacturer. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Four barrel . I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. There are a number of When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. production. Clment Charles Philibert If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Closset J.M. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. It's complete. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". Any idea what it all means? The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Counet-Leboulle J. Counet - Genot One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. A "Greener" double? Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. Designates rifled barrel. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. Thank you for On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. Beuret Frres BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Again, thank you Board Of Collette Lopold below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . The Baby Browning in . In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Does it reach the touch hole? It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. "Cueruy" could be the maker. 1840-1860. Thanks! This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. Its weight There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. (copy right L.R. Project Upland. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). listed in alphabetical order. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! This will be an on going In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. I have not fired it. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. Testing the gun Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. thank you. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Seen Can you add any details? Hi Gerard and everyone! Or any info? %PDF-1.3 GWO, good condition. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Bronne Gustave Search. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Most double shotguns represented here. Bastin Frres Some older foreign Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Do you have any information on them? It could be of relatively recent manufacture. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Closset Louis thanks for the help so far. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Bernimolin Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. The book The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Brancquaert Louis Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. stream Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Boden Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. Home | Login | Register. . Search. I can send pictures of it. Email: Info@hlebooks.com Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. I have pictures If you need them. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to - Galoppin Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Comblain - Dorther Hubert If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. By Alain Daubresse. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. HI, John. This printed It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Due to the Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Very helpfull once again. Coleye M. N. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Britte Frres Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Bernimolin & Cap

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