The text is not prescriptive. Christian geneticist and U.S. National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins suggested most churches should postpone in-person services due to COVID-19 until at least summer 2021, when every American is expected to have had the opportunity to get vaccinated, The Christian Post recently reported. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting such a bully in the name of Jesus Christ. He is a draw. Then he could claim more fictional persecution. Analogously, there are certain qualities that police forces screen for, to hopefully screen out bullies who want a uniform. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Hope youll give us another try and check out some other articles. I hope you found some of the above helpful. that young man is in jail, he didnt receive a huge sentence and is receiving a great outpouring of care and compassion from the community. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. And thus, I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. None of them see anything wrong with this. then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: Because you worked with multiple megas you have a very diverse perspective that is invaluable. What I saw was the 2 verses that I had typed on a 35 card and tacked to my bulletin board. He set himself up as King of Acts 29 and operated with no accountability at Mars Hill. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.. Your comment about magic words reminded me of Simon the Magician in Acts who was so popular and had all kinds of attention because of his magic performances. God,I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire? no., Thats the crux of the message, isnt it? I believe that.' Maybe Driscoll can do commercials like John McEnroe, i am against that sort of ministry, that sort of authority over people, that sort of famousness, that sort of using the gospel of Jesus to make money and become well known in christan circles, that sort of using Jesus name for any personal gain, that sort of i have special insight from God and heres how much you have to pay for it in my new book, that sort of quit saying i have to be asking to be forgiven if i hurt people that sort of we are all brethren but i am alpha brethren i dont hold unforgiveness toward mark driscoll but i am not for anyone anywhere doing that sort of ministry. Pouring? Its a measure of arrogance. You have no idea how freeing it has been not to be shamed into believing the best groupthink of celebs when in fact, patterns, polity, hierarchical doctrines and associations should have given us pause all along. Lydia wrote: Same goes for singles. But I did find this on the IRS website: A tax-exempt organization "may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.". If it is all about numbers and money it would be a wild ride for about five or ten years till it crashes. I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. they had a scandal about their homes for helping young women also, financial corruption-ish and not letting the women get outside counseling. The only two ways that I can think of for having said benchmarks, assuming by leadership you mean pastor(s) and not just chairman of some committee, is either having a system with central authority with established criteria which must be met prior to ordination and some written policies which are grounds for dismissal in certain conditions, That would be a denominational hierarchical system with designated people with authority and with something in writing, like an official book of how we do it. Or else to have a savvy and informed and mature congregation who would agree with and co-operate with each other on what was necessary and what needed done and which would have the actual power (backing of the people) to get it done. if your a sports fan theres a point of where something amazing is about to happenfootball baseball in the middle of a game changing moment they jump out of their seat. Yes he was forgiven, but be spent years away from his former life, maybe to relearn what Christ Jesus was about. Just watch any random hour of TBN or Daystar. Its so weird and twisted, but people eat it up. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Somebody cited a study that the most common characteristic of a Sociopath (well over 90%) was successfully Playing the Victim Card when caught. Lindell reused the Robert Morris line of chiding his congregation to stop shooting the wounded. ++++++++++++++++. Youre right. Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. I see inviting Driscoll anywhere in the same context as some dumb kid wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. The worship leaders laugh about it. actually getting behind the wheel of a car again will probably be the hardest thing he does, if he ever even wants to drive again. Rejection by churches or others in christian authority has actually resulted in the Lord comforting and building me up (in spite of my flaws) instead of causing me to doubt my salvation, He has used these things to show me how much He loves me, personally. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. I need to talk to the president, he may be unaware what some of his professors are teaching. hes a wonderful pastor to the very end. That idea was right before the idea that they were always having to give a lot of money to the church while we have voluntary giving. This stuff was high on the why we are how we are list back in the day. i tweeted: Im really glad that you are reaching out to GW and other exiles. They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. As I said, I am not a fan, but I can see the appeal of *his image,* from way back in the late 60s when posters of him 1st started appearing in college dorms. Thats why every post they make against corrupt churches matters. How to Resign from a Church Nancy, i think theres a lot of truth to what you say, and its more than posdible that people he was addressing in his letters knew at least something about that. We saw a good deal of quick forgiveness/cheap grace from defenders of TVC. This is what the giving unit is looking for, not God. I seriously doubt that most younger people then or now who appropriate his image (here in N. America) know much of anything about him. In Driscolls case he didnt even offer up the grudging apology specifically for the lives he ruined, the corruption, or the abuse of those at Mars Hill. Then the authentic community unravels like a cheap Walmart sweater. After surrendering more than 10% of your gross income for years you are tens of thousands of dollars into them at that point and that can really bolster all the cognitive dissonance you feel and strangely work to prevent your leaving. now i am going to see if i can stand to listen to the whole mark speaks video. when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. actually Jesus spoke to people He had healed early in His ministry and told them not to tell everyone, they did anyway and He spent the rest of His ministry having crowds pressing against Him and having to go hide sometimes. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. I have learned much on this blog and often from your comments which are intelligent and insightful. pic.twitter.com/FwaVnYEZIi. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. Would you hire back the embezzler to count your cash drawer after he served a short sentence because you forgave him? This captures precisely what I have been sensing as well. If one other person had confirmed my concerns then I would not have pushed my data points aside as just being something only I had an issue with. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? I have read many accounts that his nickname throughout life was el chancho (pig). So we were allowed to leave in good standing. It is possible for somebody who has a cutting tongue and a big mouth to stop. :o) I would view it like this: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are worth investigating with openess and transparancy. Active homosexuals will not make it into heaven, Lindell said in the sermon. There will be a day of reckoning. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. He was defended and protected by his peers and they even tried to help him plant a church here and give it street cred but his family of churches franchise is over for him and he is lucky if 50 people show (mostly SGM followers and family) up for his church in a room at the Marriot not far from where I live. Barnabus is the hero of this story that gets little press. I recently ran into Scott Thomas and asked him about his promise to never abandon our orphans. He was no longer at Mars Hill Church and was himself suffering a level of abuse from the Mars Hill Church leadership. GW has a lot of bad stuff they are covering up. But one morning as I sat at my desk in y basement office, I looked up at my little bulletin board. Unless he completely revamps his life and his teachings, hes going to leave damaged lives in his wake. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. where is Mark Driscolls apology to over a thousand children in two orphanages? He can be forgiven. i hope the same is happening to others who have been victims of spiritual abuse and church cult tactics. Pokin has been at the paper three years and over the course of his career has covered just about everything from courts and cops to features and fitness. Jesus Church or 501(c)3 Religious business? My heart aches for all those whom Mark Driscoll hurt from the Petrys and Meyers to the young and impressionable. In a statement Monday, the Christian County Health Department said they also received numerous complaints from the community about the services and urged those who attended to monitor themselves for COVID-19 symptoms over the next 14 days. GW also exports as they seemed to pioneer or at least perfect the concept of having pastors write books for personal profit then when the books sell too slowly, they have the main church and all their friend churches purchase the books in bulk to give away to the congregation resulting in transferring thousands of tithe dollars to individual pastors. That was not my intention. i am going to get a can of alpha-wolf-away and spray out my apartment now. So, I read what he wrote, I listened to his speeches, sermons, etc. one person, after 6 months finally started to say why they didnt attend gateway anymore and it made me wonder why people dont warn others. The sad part is that members have no idea how they are viewed unless they ask uncomfortable questions. I dont think many realize that in order to have real repentance they would have to give all that up. The US pastor, who has courted controversy for what has been dubbed his "more-macho-than-thou" brand of Christianity, resigned from his Seattle megachurch in October after being found " guilty of pride" as well as abusive, controlling and manipulative behaviour. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? For the Christmas services, additional services were added to further provide for social distancing. that is not walking in love that is running a business, and i am not a judge. If, as a teacher, you realise that you hate students, you must give up your job and find something else. I really do believe that Driscoll has sociopathic tendencies. As I listened, I couldn't help but wonder where things stand between Mark and those he threw under the bus. . mark is finally preaching more accurately who Jesus is and the fact that salvation is found in Jesus but then he goes off into marks interpretation of the bible as usual. https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/how-to-respond-to-a-faith-crisis-establishing-and-building-trust/. The disciples send him off to Tarsus and after that-there was peace for a time in the churches in Judea, Galilee and Samaria.:o). I would argue the reverse. Missouri church service Saturday evening. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. Christians have to be different than that. So Mars Hillweve done this in the pastyou probably dont know thissome years ago you all purchased a large piece of land in India that now has on orphanage with 100 kids on it and you purchased the land. Plus Driscoll has to be way cheaper than Judah Smith or Carl Lentz, the current kings of radical chic. He was a mass murdering thug. When Robert brags about lunching with Greg Abbott, golfing with George W Bush or being Rick Santorums spiritual advisor, it makes me feel ill. their ministry grew and even people that werent christians were thankful for them. Members are guests? If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. I really appreciate your insights Lydia. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. hee hee. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. To learn more, visit ja. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. There seems to be a lot of the just finding out new information that everyone already knows about but which now changes everything affliction going around. But with those reading glasses they are losing their hipness and relevance and megas feed off of young marrieds with children. Its a measure of arrogance, tweeted retired attorney and flight instructor Jeanne Mann on Sunday with a photo from the gathering. Are we really talking about clerical influence/position/authority and money? They wear what they believe are trendy shirts typically untucked to cover the middle aged spread with skinny jeans. (Not that I waiting with bated breath). You can learn a lot about someones character from how they treat those who are below them in status. No. I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. mode. Why am I concerned? one person, after 6 months finally started to say why they didnt attend gateway anymore and it made me wonder why people dont warn others. There were a number of other worship songs that roll on after this one, if these are your taste. James River Kids is the children's ministry of James River Church. There are plenty of people within the Christian faith that have their own issues with mega churches but people outside of it especially do. Was that MDs evil twin Dark Miscoll who said elders who disagree with him need to be put in wood chippers or that women need to bring their men to Jesus by orally servicing them every morning whether they like it or not? This guy has lists on his page in bulleted form: Returning so soon to the limelight reinforces the idea that it really is all about Mark. 99,693 were here. and it even works better when there is cheap grace and forgiveness all around. And of course JLindell can know that MD has NOT repented and sought reconciliation with those he threatened with breaking their nose, and then expelled and shunned. It is anguish because i love them, and see the pain of all three of them. Many teach that when Paul said he was chief of all sinners he was claiming to be as evil as he always was. re: Lindells article. Mark was one cog in a system that should never have been in place. king does not stand up for you. I study a lot of the giant DFW megas but most of my data is still filtered through the Gateway lens. Forgive him? "But we can speak and encourage people to vote in terms of the morality of the issue.". ( a stage really ) Same old spin .different tune. Open Discussion Page. You dont find out about some of the really bad stuff until you are pretty deep into it. They dont (want to) get it. The church has spawned countless church plants, charities and conferences. I have always found this aspect of Pauls story very interesting. Certainly, Fulgencio Batista (dictator of Cuba at the time of the communist takeover) was a very corrupt man, whose government did terrible things, as with Trujillo in the Dominican Republic, Papa Doc Duvalier in Haiti, and many others. He is a draw. @ Nancy: its a little hard to swallow that he knew nothing about Driscolls behaviour. You cant speak in tongues? (figuratively)) Later he show us all how it was done. I saw many warnings but there seemed to be some explanation for most of it. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. Connect With Us! And Shifting the Blame. Feel sorry for him instead as a burned out shell without compassion. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. As Gram wrote above these are relationships (if you can call it that) built on trust. I am haunted by that infamous message where he appeared to use a Bible passage to describe what was about to happen to two Mars Hill elders. Pastors who give Mark Driscoll a platform are adding to the abuse of those of us who were abusively treated by Mars Hill Church. i was looking for my link to Rob Smiths orphanage and found that he has recently posted a great response to those propping up Mark Driscoll. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded.

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